Fixed: Tuplet rework#195
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I may have gotten some things wrong, so please review closely. As part of this I have also had the Verovio rendering code re-worked. Primarily this was done to support the 'annotated tuplet' example provided, but it is also more flexible and resilient to encoding errors. Fixes #123
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I have tried to resolve all the comments.
I hope this keeps everyone happy (including me.) |
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This looks good, thanks! One general comment for the use of "musical duration", which I find confusing. Since we are maintaining the value mostly for backward compatibility, I would suggest sticking with "total duration" used in v1, which I think was not really a problem. Another option could be "sounding duration", but I would not oppose "musical" with "written". FWIW, MuseScore uses the term "entire duration [of the tuplet group]". |
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“Full” or “total” isn’t really a definition though, it’s a description. Full in reference to what? The measure? The beat? What is it the total of? “Musical” and “written” is trying to evoke the same ideas as “logical” and “visual” (since that’s basically what is happening here) without also needing to bring in all of that baggage. The “logical” duration is 4, but the “written” durations are three eighth notes. |
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For me
is pretty much the wording we had in v1 and would be perfectly clear. Why would it be in reference to the measure? or to the beat? "logical" would be better than "musical" IMO. Or "effective duration"? Or "actual duration"? I leave it to @BaMikusi and @jenniferward to decide. |
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Maybe
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For me, too, the adjective "musical" seemed problematic at first sight, an that feeling of unease didn't go away after repeated readings, either. I guess partly because, if "musical" appears as the opposite of "written," my mind starts to wonder in the realm of performance details, like a rubato -- thus, in the comparison the "written" side will seem the solid and measurable one, and the "musical" the unstable and fluctuating factor. With that in mind, any of the alternatives suggested by Laurent would seem a better choice to me -- so it should arguably be the one that Andrew can best live with. |
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I don’t have much time to work on this in the next few days, but I have specifically avoided “full” or “total” because there is ambiguity for what it is the “full”’or “total” of. Measure? Beat? If it’s an eighth note tuplet in 4/4, in what sense is that “full” or “total”? |
I don't see either, why anyone would want to think of a meaasure here. It's the total value of the tuplet, i.e., of the stuff that's written in the parentheses after this duration reference. |
it isn’t, though. If you add up the durations inside the tuplet you would get a different number than the number you provide at the beginning. |
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Ah, so you would add it up so literally -- that indeed won't work. Then you might indeed want to have a refence point outside of the code itself and speak of the tuplet's, say, "sounding" duration. |
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Exactly. “Full” or “total” implies some form of addition, but there is nothing to add together to make the first duration number. |
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It seems to me we all agree that this value is not needed since we agreed to make it optional. We keep it for backward compatibility for projects that have used it in the PAE encoding - which is not the case of (at least) most RISM incipits. I can say more why I think this is a limiting approach to tuplet encoding if needed. If we want to remove "full" duration that we had in v1, then we can do so, but we need something else than "musical" because - as we can see from this discussion - that creates confusion. I would suggest simply saying that "this value encodes the duration the tuplet group occupies.", which does not have "full" nor "total" but also avoid qualifying what this duration is - it seems to me we do not need to. If that is not good, then when can use "logical duration", "effective duration", "sounding duration", "realised duration", or something along these lines, which I all find less good than just "occupied", but that would be OK for me. |
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PS Since we already have a definition for "Written pitch" vs "Sounding pitch", it seems that a good compromise might be "sounding duration". We could say "this value encodes the corresponding sounding duration of the tuplet group." Any thoughts? |
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That’s ok with me, but we should add the duration entries to the terminology sections, and link to them in the text. |
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As is evident from my ealier comment
I am also happy with "sounding duration." Amen. |
Also fixes more issues with the tuplets section, adjusts the wording of the definitions, and clarification examples
…spec into fixed-123-tuplets
Co-authored-by: Laurent Pugin <lxpugin@gmail.com>
Co-authored-by: Laurent Pugin <lxpugin@gmail.com>
| no actual effect on the note duration. If no duration value is given, then the last stated duration | ||
| value is used. If no duration value is stated in the <a>encoding</a>, a default duration value of | ||
| <code>4</code> is assumed. | ||
| The tuplet number MAY be provided. If provided, it MUST be either a positive integer, |
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I think the first sentence should be removed, and the second one attached to the previous paragraph.
| <code>(4;'4D8E)(4;'4D8E)</code> | ||
| </td> | ||
| <td class="notation-result"></td> | ||
| <td>Two triplet values of varying duration.</td> |
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That is actually confusing because the two tuplets are the same. So if the varying duration is about the varying duration of the notes inside (which I think it is), we should have only one tuplet.
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PS I was expecting something like (4;'4D8E)(2;'4D8E)

I may have gotten some things wrong, so please review closely.
As part of this I have also had the Verovio rendering code re-worked. Primarily this was done to support the 'annotated tuplet' example provided, but it is also more flexible and resilient to encoding errors.
Fixes #123